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Does anyone have info to share about the Avalon?
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#41
RE: Does anyone have info to share about the Avalon?
Last year in at vamps I wasn't so much upset about the cutting because of that rude girl who got in my face at An Cafe,(she made me not give a shit) but when I got cut at Diru it was just insane. I must have been cut by over 100 people and I was I think 16th in line until the staff at the house of blues moved the line and all of these fans ran in front of us to the entrance. I was pretty outraged but when I got in I charged that stage(WHY NOT!?! HAHAHAHAHAHA! <I didn't slam into anyone or anything) and actually got the best view I could imagine. Front and center with two people shoulder to shoulder in front of me and I'm tall so I had a perfect front view. I saw some of the people who cut me became really far off to the side. EPIC IRONY! Just think of it this way... inevitably some people just don't care because they cant quite grasp the concept of not pushing or shoving but if you try just to stay in the spot you are and not let anyone push you back eventually people around you get shuffled in a way that gives you space to move forward without being rude. I plan to play it cool if anyone has the nerve to take advantage of my kindness because they are the one who have to deal with the lacking morality delema.
07-15-2010, 05:40 AM
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#42
RE: Does anyone have info to share about the Avalon?
(07-14-2010, 02:08 PM)iceybabes Wrote: I just think that how US FANS did it in SF worked just fine ( I KNOW this is the LA section and I KNOW we're talking about LA). There wasn't a list or anything there was numbers and if you were holding someone's place you told the person who was numbering your hand so they could skip a number or two for the next person. I personally don't think its up to anyone to judge who can and cannot be in line, if they cut then the person in front of them should speak up and say hey you weren't here all day and USUALLY the people in front of you tell you if they are holding someones place. But whatever. I won't cut in line or anything but if someone cuts in front of me you can bet I'll be telling them something. But it seems people got all sensitive and cried about not letting their friend cut in line (contradictory if you ask me) but it wasn't OK for other people to do the same. IF people say right off that "I'm holding a spot for a friend, she/he will be here later" then its fine but if its not said until that person arrives that's wrong and people should expect others to get mad. We are old enough to make decisions for ourselves I don't think we need a leader to boss us around or anything. But if whoever wants to make a list whatever, make a list.
I was told that in SF a lot of people cut in the line, maybe it was behind you.
In LV I was also told that Some people would arrive to the deserted place where the line would be and number themselves "1" as nobody was there. And that in the end you had a lot of 1, a lot of 2, a lot of 3... etc. It is very sad but people will cheat if needed to be in the front, some people take too seriously the saying about the purpose justifying the means.

The list's been used in most mexican concerts of J-Rock, and it is working so far. We tried numbering but people would cheat and get markers and then you had repeated numbers and that is very hard to judge by staff, especially in cases where a limited number of people is to get something, people can be very stubborn and each person would pull 8 witnesses, and who are you going to believe? The list is organized by the fans, but it is approved by the venue's staff, they do not interfere because the policy is that they do not interfere... but they also think, as organizers, that is saves everyone much trouble, when the line is forming they come and ask "are you already making a list?" and if people is, they smile. So I still think the list is a good idea... I'm not going, so you can do whatever you want X-D I came basically because you said there were 3 lists and that is a blatant lie.


(07-14-2010, 03:32 PM)Bebe Wrote: Agree Icon_up
And yes, Bebe, I am sure you agree. I remember you from the line at the Wiltern.


(07-14-2010, 08:34 PM)gakkuhai Wrote: We just don't want a repeat of last year when some people (Hedelex Icon_heart ) had to deliver the smackdown on some rude cutters! And yes :) I think we will make a list. Icon_biggrin
I delivered nothing, really :-p It was just that some people needed to get ignored at a point, they had warnings! and it wasn't me... everyone in the line had the same feeling towards that particular group because we all warned them many times around. The group even crossed their arms and told me there was nothing I could do to them, and said something like "try to move me"... this was the point where I was starting to consider the idea of letting people sort the problem by themselves, like IceyBabes said, that each group would have to sort their own issues, because, honestly, I already had my spot, I was exhausted, a little famished, very tired of giving the same explanations a hundred times and had not gotten sleep in 3 nights, also I was very sure it was hard that someone could cut the line in front of me since I was number 2 X-D But this group even told them I had given them authorization to cut the line O_O so, some people came to me not asking for help, but complaining, I was very involved :-p and of course there is the fact that... why should you shut up when someone wants to get around a group of people who worked hard on getting those spots?? You arrive early, you sacrifice sight-seeing, you sleep on the street, you suffer hunger, and a bunch of guys have the nerve think they don't need to do such stuff, that's not fair. If they care that much, they should work on it. So I agreed with them, I had no authority over anyone... so I invited the line to ignore them, and we did. In lists there is no boss, the list is like a society, it exists because people choose to stay in a group and more or less respect the rules imposed by common agreement, the list protects the people listed, the sign their names on the list to have a physical proof that they were there before the 5 people after them. If people doesn't want a list, wel...I don't care X-D


(07-15-2010, 05:40 AM)The Shockstar Wrote: I plan to play it cool if anyone has the nerve to take advantage of my kindness because they are the one who have to deal with the lacking morality delema.

Way to go! That is very kind and moral from you, I admire it but I don't have the same feelings :-p
I try to be kind, but if someone plays dirty, they can't expect me to do nothing X-D
I hope nobody takes advantage of you, you are a very nice person I came to appreciate a lot even if we met briefly. :-)
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07-16-2010, 06:25 PM
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#43
RE: Does anyone have info to share about the Avalon?
(07-13-2010, 06:08 PM)VAMPS + American Street Team + Wrote:
(07-13-2010, 02:19 PM)iceybabes Wrote: I don't think the line needs monitored. It was fine last year. If you have someone hold your spot they are holding your spot. We had no problems in SF, Vegas or SD with people cutting really. LA wasn't really a problem either from where I was at. Now if an extraordinary amount of people are cutting in front of you saying they were there and they weren't there at all except an hour before the show then yeah but if someone sleeps over night and holds your position for you and you come there in the morning I see no need to monitor anything. I know in SF we marked hands and it worked just fine.


--------------------

There were quite a few problems in LA, especially if you read the posts of some of the people that went. I remember where you were in line, and some of my friends in line a little before you were cut by a bunch of other people. And the hand marking wasn't done by the venue staff, but by fans that arrived before I did. And what I mean by monitoring the line, I mean by making sure there aren't any problems during the time people are camping out. The day of the show, well, I can't really do much about line cutting the day of.

No really? I didn't know the hand marking wasn't done by the venue, I think I was at enough shows to know that it was a fan thing not venues (I was at SF, Vegas, SD, LA shows afterall).

Oh and the thing with Vegas was because the SECURITY at Wasted Space/Hard Rock did NOT let us line up until an HOUR before the show. It was first come first serve on the first people. I got front row because well I was there when I was supposed to be. I'm not going to argue about this subject anymore, I said what I need to say and Ah well. I still think we are all old enough to take care of ourselves but do what you all please, doesn't mean people are going to listen though. I'm not camping out so I guess I don't have to worry..
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07-16-2010, 11:33 PM
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#44
RE: Does anyone have info to share about the Avalon?
(07-16-2010, 06:25 PM)Hedelex Wrote:
(07-14-2010, 03:32 PM)Bebe Wrote: Agree Icon_up
And yes, Bebe, I am sure you agree. I remember you from the line at the Wiltern.

I'm not here to pick fights with other fans. I don't think it's very nice of you to make that comment to me as if calling me out because I expressed an opinion, as you expressed yours. Thanks a lot.

It's not that I support people cutting the line, if that's what you're trying to imply. I simply don't like the idea of a person, or even a group of people controlling a list, as if they are in charge or have some authority over the line. In general I feel that people should mind their own business and worry about protecting their own spots.

In L.A. I kept being pushed further back in line because of other people cutting. Ahead of my friends, there were people who had their friend(s) join them later, which is why I justified joining my friends, the same as the people ahead had. It wasn't like I showed up last minute, either.
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2010, 11:53 PM by Bebe.)
07-16-2010, 11:48 PM
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#45
RE: Does anyone have info to share about the Avalon?
(07-16-2010, 11:33 PM)iceybabes Wrote: words

Man, y'all need to chill! Everyone's so defensive. If you're not camping out, then hey, that's probably why you're not worried about the list. Good for you Icon_blaugh Good luck!

(07-16-2010, 11:48 PM)Bebe Wrote: It's not that I support people cutting the line...I simply don't like the idea of a person, or even a group of people controlling a list, as if they are in charge or have some authority over the line. In general I feel that people should mind their own business and worry about protecting their own spots.

Well, you can go ahead and mind your own business if you like, but some people like to stick together. No one's controlling the list. The list is not the final word. It's a tool to avoid having evil people cut. Or to help someone hold their friends' spots (3 max we agreed?) without crazy drama.

Guys. If you don't wanna sign the **** list then don't! But we're gonna make one. 'Cause it helps. Icon_cool
07-17-2010, 01:03 AM
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#46
RE: Does anyone have info to share about the Avalon?
(07-16-2010, 11:48 PM)Bebe Wrote: I'm not here to pick fights with other fans. I don't think it's very nice of you to make that comment to me as if calling me out because I expressed an opinion, as you expressed yours. Thanks a lot.

It's not that I support people cutting the line, if that's what you're trying to imply. I simply don't like the idea of a person, or even a group of people controlling a list, as if they are in charge or have some authority over the line. In general I feel that people should mind their own business and worry about protecting their own spots.

In L.A. I kept being pushed further back in line because of other people cutting. Ahead of my friends, there were people who had their friend(s) join them later, which is why I justified joining my friends, the same as the people ahead had. It wasn't like I showed up last minute, either.

I am calling you out because there was something to call in the first place. Opinion is free to anyone, I mean no insult, I am not calling you a cheater, I am just saying that you cannot criticize like that something you were a part of willingly.
If you didn't like the list, I still wonder why you people signed it.
@ L.A. : I don't know if the list still exists (i was not in possession of the list even if I volunteered to go back the line and explain people and give them the list so they could file it), but the videos exist. I can admit of ONE person that was not in the list before you and ended up in the line before you. ONE. Because, again: The asian girl in purple EXCHANGED herself for her friend. One person for another one.
Later just before the show, I don't know if people cut in line before you and your friends, because when we checked the list, there were only 4 issues. The 2 asian girls, you, and the group that wanted to cut in front of Mirta. Like I stated before: we are also not god, exceptions will always be done and have to be done and you have always to make agreements at some point, even if tacit. Taking your example, you say you joined your friends because people that cut in line kept on pushing you back, if everyone is responsible to hold its own spot, that means if that person has not the will to hold it, the people making line behind will get screwed with maybe 20, 40 spots?
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07-17-2010, 01:45 AM
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#47
RE: Does anyone have info to share about the Avalon?
The big issue with cutting is, as was mentioned before, when a group holds a spot for a person or two, who have 3 friends with them, who have a boyfriend with them, who has another friend with them, who has 2 more friends, and so on, who all show up an hour or two before doors time, without the people behind them having any prior knowledge of it.

I would NEVER do this, and if I was aware of people doing it to myself or others, I wouldn't stand for it, and I would stick up for others. If the list is there to prevent this, then sure, I support having a list.

I don't think that a group holding spot for one or two people, who arrive many hours before doors time, and hopefully have let the people around/behind them know they are coming, is that much of an issue. As H.P. mentioned, she was holding a spot for someone, and let the people around her know, so it wouldn't be an issue.

Honestly, I don't know if my friends let the people around them know they were holding a spot for me. I thought that they had, or tried to. But if they didn't, I'm truly sorry, it's my fault for not getting there the same time they did.

Lists didn't bother me before. The root of the reason why having a list upsets me now since the Wiltern show, is that I ask myself, why was I considered an "issue" when I joined my friends, but someone else (sorry I don't mean to attack you H.P.) can hold a spot for someone in a similar way WITHOUT it being an issue?

At the time, I thought that because H.P. was in some way involved with the list (I assumed she was, because she was the one who asked me to sign it) it was "allowed" for her to include her friend, but not for my friends to include me. That's just the way it seemed at the time. And that is what really turned me off to having a list - it SEEMED like a way for the people involved in the creation and/or execution of the list to allow who they wanted, and not allow who they didn't want to.

And, when there's a list it makes no sense for me to not sign it just because I don't like it, as that's not going to make it disappear. That would just make me look like I wasn't even there in line at all.

btw again H.P., I don't mean to specifically insult you or attack you, because I don't necessarily think you did something wrong. I just don't understand why it's a double standard - that some can do what you did, but others cannot.
07-17-2010, 03:20 AM
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#48
RE: Does anyone have info to share about the Avalon?
(07-17-2010, 03:20 AM)Bebe Wrote: The big issue with cutting is, as was mentioned before, when a group holds a spot for a person or two, who have 3 friends with them, who have a boyfriend with them, who has another friend with them, who has 2 more friends, and so on, who all show up an hour or two before doors time, without the people behind them having any prior knowledge of it.

I would NEVER do this, and if I was aware of people doing it to myself or others, I wouldn't stand for it, and I would stick up for others. If the list is there to prevent this, then sure, I support having a list.

I don't think that a group holding spot for one or two people, who arrive many hours before doors time, and hopefully have let the people around/behind them know they are coming, is that much of an issue. As H.P. mentioned, she was holding a spot for someone, and let the people around her know, so it wouldn't be an issue.

Honestly, I don't know if my friends let the people around them know they were holding a spot for me. I thought that they had, or tried to. But if they didn't, I'm truly sorry, it's my fault for not getting there the same time they did.

Lists didn't bother me before. The root of the reason why having a list upsets me now since the Wiltern show, is that I ask myself, why was I considered an "issue" when I joined my friends, but someone else (sorry I don't mean to attack you H.P.) can hold a spot for someone in a similar way WITHOUT it being an issue?

At the time, I thought that because H.P. was in some way involved with the list (I assumed she was, because she was the one who asked me to sign it) it was "allowed" for her to include her friend, but not for my friends to include me. That's just the way it seemed at the time. And that is what really turned me off to having a list - it SEEMED like a way for the people involved in the creation and/or execution of the list to allow who they wanted, and not allow who they didn't want to.

And, when there's a list it makes no sense for me to not sign it just because I don't like it, as that's not going to make it disappear. That would just make me look like I wasn't even there in line at all.

btw again H.P., I don't mean to specifically insult you or attack you, because I don't necessarily think you did something wrong. I just don't understand why it's a double standard - that some can do what you did, but others cannot.

------------------

For starters, I didn't even know you were with anyone else other than the person that was with you. When I asked you to sign the list, I specifically told you that the list wasn't official and that it was meant for in case we got removed from the line, everyone could like up accordingly. So that way, issues of having to re-line up could be avoided. At that time, that was what I was told the list was about. I wasn't the one who started it. This isn't a personal attack on you, rather, I just hope to clarify the situation. I had never met you before that night, and you didn't express to me that you were supposed to be in line with your friends, or however that was to work.

I have mentioned in my previous posts that I, too, agree that someone doesn't have the right to tell someone how to line up or with whom. Unless you are part of VAMPS' Official staff and have some actual "control" over the line, no one has that authority, especially including myself. I also expressed this same point to the people who initially started the list in the first place, to which they then replied: "the list isn't for those purposes, just in case we get removed from the line during the night, we can all line back up the way we were." So I felt that may be a good idea, especially since security guards from the Wiltern and the neighboring building did in fact patrol the venue site at night.

So, I do apologize for any inconveniences this may have caused, but know that was not the original intention of the list in the first place. The same applies to the future list that may be created for the upcoming Los Angeles show: it is SOLELY meant for lining up the way we were that day, in the event that we should get removed line while camping out, nothing more than that. Thank you.
07-17-2010, 06:10 AM
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#49
RE: Does anyone have info to share about the Avalon?
(07-17-2010, 06:10 AM)VAMPS + American Street Team + Wrote:
(07-17-2010, 03:20 AM)Bebe Wrote: Lists didn't bother me before. The root of the reason why having a list upsets me now since the Wiltern show, is that I ask myself, why was I considered an "issue" when I joined my friends, but someone else (sorry I don't mean to attack you H.P.) can hold a spot for someone in a similar way WITHOUT it being an issue?

And, when there's a list it makes no sense for me to not sign it just because I don't like it, as that's not going to make it disappear. That would just make me look like I wasn't even there in line at all.

------------------
........ not the original intention of the list in the first place. The same applies to the future list that may be created for the upcoming Los Angeles show: it is SOLELY meant for lining up the way we were that day, in the event that we should get removed line while camping out, nothing more than that. Thank you.

Interesting... I was told (NOT by HP) that no one could hold spots for friends. And to not write their names on the lists. While this didn't bother me (I went alone) you must understand my frustration when people were cutting left and right after we all camped out. Also, who gave them the authority to say this?

It's very hypocritical when people are telling you not to hold people's places in line, and then turn around and say "Everyone is old enough to fend for themselves" or whatever, knowing that given the chance they would want to have the option to hold friends' spots or vice versa.

I just don't want drama. That's all. I'm sure we can all agree drama is bad. Yeah I could like to say, "*** you all, if I get a spot in the front I don't care about anyone." I just don't think it's fair for people to get cut in front of by a mass of people. Maybe the list can help this. Maybe it won't and it's just for the purpose of keeping order when camping out.

Whatever. We totally hijacked this thread to debate something that isn't really an issue. If HP makes a list then I will sign it and hope it's okay if my friend holds my spot. That's it. Not telling anyone what to do. 'Cause that's what it comes down to. It's your choice. If HP doesn't start a list, I'm sure someone else will to suit their purposes as you said. Yup. That's what we're trying to avoid. Icon_3nodding
(This post was last modified: 07-17-2010, 06:45 AM by gakkuhai.)
07-17-2010, 06:36 AM
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#50
RE: Does anyone have info to share about the Avalon?
(07-17-2010, 06:10 AM)VAMPS + American Street Team + Wrote:
(07-17-2010, 03:20 AM)Bebe Wrote: The big issue with cutting is, as was mentioned before, when a group holds a spot for a person or two, who have 3 friends with them, who have a boyfriend with them, who has another friend with them, who has 2 more friends, and so on, who all show up an hour or two before doors time, without the people behind them having any prior knowledge of it.

I would NEVER do this, and if I was aware of people doing it to myself or others, I wouldn't stand for it, and I would stick up for others. If the list is there to prevent this, then sure, I support having a list.

I don't think that a group holding spot for one or two people, who arrive many hours before doors time, and hopefully have let the people around/behind them know they are coming, is that much of an issue. As H.P. mentioned, she was holding a spot for someone, and let the people around her know, so it wouldn't be an issue.

Honestly, I don't know if my friends let the people around them know they were holding a spot for me. I thought that they had, or tried to. But if they didn't, I'm truly sorry, it's my fault for not getting there the same time they did.

Lists didn't bother me before. The root of the reason why having a list upsets me now since the Wiltern show, is that I ask myself, why was I considered an "issue" when I joined my friends, but someone else (sorry I don't mean to attack you H.P.) can hold a spot for someone in a similar way WITHOUT it being an issue?

At the time, I thought that because H.P. was in some way involved with the list (I assumed she was, because she was the one who asked me to sign it) it was "allowed" for her to include her friend, but not for my friends to include me. That's just the way it seemed at the time. And that is what really turned me off to having a list - it SEEMED like a way for the people involved in the creation and/or execution of the list to allow who they wanted, and not allow who they didn't want to.

And, when there's a list it makes no sense for me to not sign it just because I don't like it, as that's not going to make it disappear. That would just make me look like I wasn't even there in line at all.

btw again H.P., I don't mean to specifically insult you or attack you, because I don't necessarily think you did something wrong. I just don't understand why it's a double standard - that some can do what you did, but others cannot.

------------------

For starters, I didn't even know you were with anyone else other than the person that was with you. When I asked you to sign the list, I specifically told you that the list wasn't official and that it was meant for in case we got removed from the line, everyone could like up accordingly. So that way, issues of having to re-line up could be avoided. At that time, that was what I was told the list was about. I wasn't the one who started it. This isn't a personal attack on you, rather, I just hope to clarify the situation. I had never met you before that night, and you didn't express to me that you were supposed to be in line with your friends, or however that was to work.

This is completely untrue. Maybe you've forgotten, and it would make sense if you had forgotten because this was nearly a year ago, and so much happened that day.

When I first arrived to the line in the middle of the night, and you said hello to me and asked me to sign up at the list, I told you I had friends who had arrived already that were holding me a spot, that I really wanted to join them, and would feel more comfortable if I could. I absolutely DID express that to you. I told you I was going to go find them, and I walked away from you to go get in line with them. I don't know how I could have been any clearer with you to make you understand, when I had already told you very clearly, and you had absolutely acknowledged what I had said.

You held a spot for a friend in the same way my friends held a spot for me. I showed up to the line even earlier than your friend did, because I believe I remember when she came. Please don't act like I did something wrong, accusing me of not telling you my intent when I did (who are you that I should have to tell, anyway?) and acting like it's okay for you, thanks. That's what I don't want this list to bring about as it did last year, that some are privileged to hold spots and others aren't. Official or not, those who aren't privileged to be able to have a spot held for them according to the list will be called issues, almost a year later, for expressing an opinion on the matter.

If the list is really only to keep things generally organized when people camp, then fine, I don't have problems with it.
(This post was last modified: 07-17-2010, 01:31 PM by Bebe.)
07-17-2010, 01:17 PM
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