(07-13-2009, 09:28 AM)celeste_ Wrote: I'm thinking maybe this show was particularly bad because it was the first show on the tour, and so a lot of people who were going to travel (i.e. the most rabid of fangirls) went to this one?
I dunno, I consider myself a fairly rabid fangirl but I'm not the pushy kill-everyone-between-me-and-hyde type. :)

I'm looking forward to Portland. Smaller venue, hopefully less drama :)

Alternatively, I'm all for blaming grumpy New Yorkers.

Hey, it works in the movies!

(07-13-2009, 09:28 AM)celeste_ Wrote: I'm thinking maybe this show was particularly bad because it was the first show on the tour, and so a lot of people who were going to travel (i.e. the most rabid of fangirls) went to this one?
I dunno, I consider myself a fairly rabid fangirl but I'm not the pushy kill-everyone-between-me-and-hyde type. :)

I'm looking forward to Portland. Smaller venue, hopefully less drama :)

Yes, that's what I'm hopeing. Pushing I'm expecting but not some wild moshing-to-kill-you garbage. In my opinion if anyone wants to mosh they can be in the back out of everyones way.

New York people don't have the friendliest reputation in general* so that + being the first show could be a reason for it's less-than-friendlyness. Excited fans with attitude problems thinking they deserve the bands attention.

Baltimore show is soon and hopefully there won't be any moshing. Maybe someone will run into security while waiting in line and can mention it to them so they'll be on the lookout.

(*Note: I know not all New Yorkers are bad, but in general New York people are seen as aloof, cold, and a bit snarky to non-friends. I suppose its just because of growing a thick skin due to city life)

Everyone. You need to understand something. THIS WAS THE FIRST SHOW AND IT WAS SOLD OUT IN A RATHER SMALL VENUE. Think about that combination. Small place, sold out. First show. Everyone, local or traveler, everyone was too excited to see the first show. And there is proof because some lined up from the day before. This created even MORE expectation, more anxiety to be there first, more fear of being left in the back and not being able to see anything. See what I'm getting at?

So how can you expect everyone to just stand still in a room that is completely packed? Specially with fans that had never been to a VAMPS show before and were soooo thrilled. I'm just saying some of you are condemning the NY show to hell already because of actions that were completely natural to the situation I mentioned.
You just have to learn from your experiences and appreciate it.

I knew the show was sold out so the first thing is, no way I'm going in the front. It's common sense. I watched the show from the balcony and had a wonderful experience. I didn't camp out and I could see the entire stage and the band with no one interrupting my view. It's just a matter of planning for what your goal is. If you want to see the show and don't want to have anyone blocking you, pushing you, then the front row is out of the question unless the show is NOT sold out. It's just common sense people!

I just can't believe that after all the bad decisions some people made they still complain about the result. Anyway, I hope the other shows go well and that those who are attending enjoy them 100%!

Note: There were a lot of people from out of town so please don't blame us New Yorkers. And really it is not the people, it was the circumstances that I mentioned at the beginning of this post. If you think about it it makes sense. And again, there was no moshing. I was watching. It was too many people trying to push to the front and pushing from the sides.

(07-13-2009, 09:44 AM)Tokio Wrote: Excited fans with attitude problems thinking they deserve the bands attention.

Speaking of, how will I know the Hydeists, so I'll see them coming? Will they be in all black, festooned with pounds of jewelry & Hyde/KAZ/GEREZZA tattooed across their foreheads?

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(07-13-2009, 09:54 AM)oscura_gotham Wrote: I knew the show was sold out so the first thing is, no way I'm going in the front. It's common sense.

I just can't believe that after all the bad decisions some people made they still complain about the result. Anyway, I hope the other shows go well and that those who are attending enjoy them 100%!

It sounds like, through your infinitely wise decision-making, you're in no position to judge the bahavior of others at the show, because you weren't getting maliciously stepped on, pushed, elbowed, etc.

Unless you're saying it's common sense to expect someone to pinch you, grind their foot into the top of yours, pull your hair, etc? I've been to many many club & general admission shows and none of those things have happened to me.

The criticism should go where it belongs, to the people who were misbehaving, not the people who were being abused because they did what was expected.... got there first to line up. That's how society works, or at least, how it's supposed to.

I, for one, was obviously joking about the New York thing.

Plus Sonar may not be sold out, but they've closed off two large chunks of the club now, so it might as well be, I think.

(07-13-2009, 09:54 AM)oscura_gotham Wrote: Everyone. You need to understand something. THIS WAS THE FIRST SHOW AND IT WAS SOLD OUT IN A RATHER SMALL VENUE. Think about that combination. Small place, sold out. First show. Everyone, local or traveler, everyone was too excited to see the first show. And there is proof because some lined up from the day before. This created even MORE expectation, more anxiety to be there first, more fear of being left in the back and not being able to see anything. See what I'm getting at?

So how can you expect everyone to just stand still in a room that is completely packed? Specially with fans that had never been to a VAMPS show before and were soooo thrilled. I'm just saying some of you are condemning the NY show to hell already because of actions that were completely natural to the situation I mentioned.
You just have to learn from your experiences and appreciate it.

I knew the show was sold out so the first thing is, no way I'm going in the front. It's common sense. I watched the show from the balcony and had a wonderful experience. I didn't camp out and I could see the entire stage and the band with no one interrupting my view. It's just a matter of planning for what your goal is. If you want to see the show and don't want to have anyone blocking you, pushing you, then the front row is out of the question unless the show is NOT sold out. It's just common sense people!

I just can't believe that after all the bad decisions some people made they still complain about the result. Anyway, I hope the other shows go well and that those who are attending enjoy them 100%!

Note: There were a lot of people from out of town so please don't blame us New Yorkers. And really it is not the people, it was the circumstances that I mentioned at the beginning of this post. If you think about it it makes sense. And again, there was no moshing. I was watching. It was too many people trying to push to the front and pushing from the sides.

Yes, but it is also common sense, well maybe not as much as it used to be, that you play nice. I would NEVER exhibit some of the behavior that I have heard about....pinching, gouging, grinding someone's foot to get them out of the way. It's just plain rude and disgusting.
I've been to sold-out shows in small venues and people were not trying to purposely hurt each other. But, like you said, not everyone there was from NY.
I think the problem lies with the security. It seems that they were just out numbered and did not anticipate what was going on. They were more concerned with taking away the fainters than controlling the crowd. If this happened with MUCC, then you think they would know how we feel about our JRock loves. If it was blazing hot in there and they were overwhelmed, they may have just thought to let it go and just keep hauling out the bodies.
I mean if head of security came on stage and asked everyone to step back, would they have done it? Probably not. If Hyde came on stage and made the same request? Maybe 2 inches.....
So I am hoping we look out for each other at the rest of the venues and the situation improves.

(07-13-2009, 10:09 AM)cathb Wrote: Yes, but it is also common sense, well maybe not as much as it used to be, that you play nice. I would NEVER exhibit some of the behavior that I have heard about....pinching, gouging, grinding someone's foot to get them out of the way. It's just plain rude and disgusting.
I've been to sold-out shows in small venues and people were not trying to purposely hurt each other.

Precisely my point. Who could expect behavior like that??

At very least, they deserve to be able to vent about it without being lectured about "common sense". It used to be "common sense" not to wear revealing clothes, or "bad things" could happen.

That sort of reasoning has long been discarded.

Expecting pure viciousness at an entertainment event is in no way common sense.

^ I see nothing wrong with complaining. Its NEVER okay for people to injure others just because they're excited. Fans should be able to be in the front and not get seriously injured. Pushing/swaying is expected but that's it.

HYDE's concert in 06 was sold out and there wasn't this problem. There were less people but still, a group of excited people is still a group of excited people. There was pushing but it wasn't violent. If people needed to get out of the crowd others moved out of their way.
Well, there was a LITTLE violence between individuals but it wasn't something that affected the whole floor.

Being excited is no excuse to ruin the experience for everyone else. Paying fans have the right to be in the front WITHOUT risking their life.

Personally, I don't think it's common sense to expect to be attacked/seriously injured at a concert. Only to expect the normal pushing/swaying and the occasional bad fan. Not a whole floor of bad fans.

Sold out or not the venue should be all over stopping behavior that's getting out of hand. People can get seriously injured or die in situations like that.

And why is wanting to be in the front a bad decision? It's normal to want to be in the front, but not to try to kill people for it. And if fans have been to other concerts and been on the floor without an issue than I'm sure they weren't expecting this one to be a problem.
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About Sonar: I think the club is split into 3 different rooms, so we wouldn't have access to the other rooms even if there was no other shows. The main room holds 1400 people according to their specs. I don't know if they have an upstairs for people to hide.

(07-13-2009, 10:18 AM)Tokio Wrote: ^ I see nothing wrong with complaining. Its NEVER okay for people to injure others just because they're excited. Fans should be able to be in the front and not get seriously injured. Pushing/swaying is expected but that's it.

HYDE's concert in 06 was sold out and there wasn't this problem. There were less people but still, a group of excited people is still a group of excited people. There was pushing but it wasn't violent. If people needed to get out of the crowd others moved out of their way.
Well, there was a LITTLE violence between individuals but it wasn't something that affected the whole floor.

Being excited is no excuse to ruin the experience for everyone else. Paying fans have the right to be in the front WITHOUT risking their life.

Personally, I don't think it's common sense to expect to be attacked/seriously injured at a concert. Only to expect the normal pushing/swaying and the occasional bad fan. Not a whole floor of bad fans.

Sold out or not the venue should be all over stopping behavior that's getting out of hand. People can get seriously injured or die in situations like that.

And why is wanting to be in the front a bad decision? It's normal to want to be in the front, but not to try to kill people for it. And if fans have been to other concerts and been on the floor without an issue than I'm sure they weren't expecting this one to be a problem.
-------
About Sonar: I think the club is split into 3 different rooms, so we wouldn't have access to the other rooms even if there was no other shows. The main room holds 1400 people according to their specs. I don't know if they have an upstairs for people to hide.

Totally agree.
Plus if someone had, God forbid, gotten seriously/permanently injured or worse, who is going to be on their "to sue" list. VAMPS, that's who. For not having better security? Lawyers always find some crack somewhere. How's that for a "Welcome to America". Would they ever come back? Would any of the other bands that we want over here? We need American hospitality not American hostility.

Ok I understand everyone's point. Honestly, I usually go to shows in NYC with much heavier/aggressive music and I already expect the crowds to be aggressive. So for me this was no different. With a crowd so large there is the possibility that some might get hurt unfortunately. That's what I'm used to (although it is a fact that in most metal concerts people do help each other out after they've knocked each other down). I know that's not everyone's experience but it's how I judged it because that's my experience in shows here. And people who go to shows here always enjoy them and expect them to be aggressive but again it's a different type of music/crowd.

Anyway it's too bad some had a bad experience. I still think the show was amazing and hope everyone can enjoy the other shows.

(07-13-2009, 10:48 AM)oscura_gotham Wrote: Ok I understand everyone's point. Honestly, I usually go to shows in NYC with much heavier/aggressive music and I already expect the crowds to be aggressive. So for me this was no different. With a crowd so large there is the possibility that some might get hurt unfortunately. That's what I'm used to (although it is a fact that in most metal concerts people do help each other out after they've knocked each other down).

There's aggressive, and then there's abusive and opportunistic. I doubt the metal-folk are trying to take each other out in order to jockey for the front.

For me, the bulk of my club shows have been They Might Be Giants (@ DC's 9:30 Club). People are nice, smiley, happy to be there, and happy to see other fans. Everybody sings along, gets along, and looks out for each other. I'm not expecting a love-in @ Vamps, but I definitely wasn't expecting people trying to take you out for your spot in the crowd.

That's just pure, basement-dwelling, no-social-skills, fangirl meanness. These are obviously the same turds that go to an anime convention and pull a cosplayer's hair because they don't like the character she's playing. (Yes, it has happened)

Edit:

Story time!

I have a friend who sells anime merch on Ebay. These two BEST FRIENDS contacted him, and wanted to see some of his inventory, so he had them over to his house.

He had a particular plushie that both of them wanted, and they almost got INTO A FIST FIGHT over it in his living room. He ended up refusing to sell it to either of them, and told them he'd let them know when he had one for both of them.

Those are the types we're dealing with here. Sad.